Fulltime Casual - An Australian Film and TV Podcast

These are the witty posts I miss. And I agree, although I hardly ever have bags with me, it annoys the shit out of me, especially when they ask like 80 year old grandparents, I mean, yeah, they’re public enemy number one, they want to get away with your chips.

Is it just me, or do people that intend to shoplift, generally don’t purchase anything?

I work in retail, so I’m biased (I’m the one asking “Can I check your bag, sir?”) but two things. First of all, if we don’t ask the Grannies if we can check their bag, we get in trouble for “profiling” and discrimination and such. Also, Grannies DO steal; and they don’t admit to it easily either
Secondly, you have every right to say “no” when they ask you. Yes, that sign in the front of the shop *IS* legally binding. You are entering private property and you are thereby agreeing to the terms clearly stated. However, there’s nothing they can do about it, short of calling the police - who aren’t about to drop everything and make you show your bag… they have no right whatsoever to touch you, or your bag.

BTW, nice blog!

Oh yeah, and people who buy stuff DO steal - I’ve caught a number of people trying to scam/steal from the shop I work in when working the checkouts.

Those signs represent the terms of the contract that you have agreed to by entering the store. Most people don’t realise but you can enter a contract in many ways other than signing your life away. In this case its via performance. As long as the terms and conditions are posted somewhere visible before you enter the store, you agree to the contract by entering the store.

The best example is where you enter a car park or drop your dry cleaning off. The big sign that says they aren’t liable for any damage caused actually means that they aren’t liable for any damage caused.

You could refuse and their only remedy is contractual which is relatively difficult to enforce. But then you’d probably just give them a reason to call security or the police. The extent to which your required to comply with private security is another question that I’m not sure about. There’s probably another sign at the front of the shopping centre…

Funny they only ask me if I look uncertain. Often I just can’t be bothered and walk out without even glancing at them, they never attempt to stop me or anything.

They can’t stop you, if they touch you that is assault and they can be charged with that offence.

The other one I looked at in Melbourne was the rules posted inside the trains. They all actually state that the guard guys have the right to ask you to show ID etc etc. They don´t actually state that you legally must…. If you read the signs carefully all they say is that a bunch of people employed by the company are allowed to ask you things, nothing more.

I had a girl at the Bilo (Coles now) near my place ask to see my ID when buying a bottle of really nice wine. I turned to her and asked to see HER ID as I was under the impression that a minor could not sell alcohol. You should have seen the look on her face…At least I look over 18 she got all edgy and as defensive as a 16 year old.

repeat after me ladies and gentlemen:

“No warrent, no search”.

Sure they can ask you not to return to the store. It is private property, they can deny entry. That’s it.

interesting…

as a social expirement, i’m going to simply and politely say “no” for the next week and see what happens..

The last time I heard a copper speak on the issue is that you can say no. Those signs are legally meaningless…
however the shop can legally detain you and wait for a policeman to come and do a legal check - he doesn’t need a warrant just a justifiable suspicion… which by you saying no… might be all that he needs…

I have said no you cant before… but please call the police.. I am happy to wait for them to come and check my bag. Check out chicks normally just fold and let me on my way.

The signs out front of shops are *not* legally enforcable. They can ask you to show them your bag, but you have every right to say no. The only thing they can do is ban you from entering the store again. If they detain you, and you have not stolen anything you can sue for false arrest.

Nice blog - found via clicking around Twitter.

As others have said, they can’t search your person.

Depending upon the state (Not sure about VIC, fairly sure about NSW) you’re in, If they have a reasonable suspicion that you have committed an offence, or intend to (i.e by shoplifting): They can require you to remain present until the police arrive. If you refuse, they may be able to perform a citizens arrest and use ‘reasonable force’ to restrain you until the police arrive.
Of course, if the police officer finds you’ve committed no offence, you may have a case against unlawful arrest and possibly harassment.

They can also ban you from returning to their store, and if it’s a chain/multiple outlet store (eg: Coles/Woolies), they can ban you from all stores. They’ll generally only do this if you really piss them off though.

Mum had a penchant for refusing to have her bags searched at supermarkets when I was a teen - and once or twice has been told not to return. They never enforced it though. It’s really embarassing having your mother argue it out with a series of different managers as to whether they could search her bag.
You’re likely to piss off the people behind you too

For me, when I’ve got a backpack it’s usually pretty full, and weighs about 10KG (Laptop + DSLR Camera + Lenses + Flash + PDA + etc.). So I drag it off my back, and heave it up the counter - then open the zippers just enough so that they can see it’s full of electronic equipment.

I usually try and pre-empt them though, especially when I know I’ll have a lot of shopping to carry, and get it out of the way before I have to pick stuff up. The ones that get me annoyed are those that initially say “No, thanks” (or ignore me), then when I’m organising my shopping into carryable sections they say “Can I see your bag”. A sarcastic comment like “Yeah, it’s heavy, and it’s on my back now - too late” usually stops them for long enough for me to get out.

So… how did you experiment go?

Hey,

Thanks for the comments so far. As far as my experiment went, I didnt get asked by any checkout chick all week. It was really strange. When i was finally asked again, i forgot for a second about this post. bummer.

I used to like to go thrift shopping, but I am finding they are now requiring to check your bag. All I can think is:”Okay, I hand over my bag with my ID and credit cards so I can search through their trash?” No deal. They don’t ask you to do that at diamond jewelry stores, but thrift shops are going to lose sooo much money from their trash that now I have to put my identity at risk to pick up a few odds and ends? Have they even thought this policy out?

So, I told one after I came in and they demanded my daughter’s expensive camera case and my handbag that I doubt I would be handing over my bag to anyone with so much identity theft in society going on. The store owner had a FIT! She came over and harangued me about how people have stolen stuff from her etc. etc. and she DEMANDED that it was her right to take our bags. I don’t think so. She wants me to believe that she has the right to demand my bag just because I stepped into her store and I haven’t got a right to say no? She can mistrust me all she wants but I can’t mistrust her? She can then act the bitch and pretend I’m OFFENDING her by insinuating she might use the policy to do identity theft? What’s good for the goose is good for gander. You never seen anyone so po’d like her and she was the one that started it! I wasn’t going to say anything, I was just leaving. She made sure to come up to my face to demand my bag. I left and determined that I would boycott all stores from now on that demand my bag.

They can stop being so cheap and put up cameras for God’s sake. Why should I be responsible for other people stealing from her? Get a grip!

Depends on how big the bag is really. They should go by size of a bread loaf, you have to check the bag if it’s bigger than the bread loaf - that’s how I’ve always done it being a checkout chick at Coles, unless my current work place has a new law, as I haven’t been working there for awhile.
I don’t really check bags that carry laptops in them! What’s the point really?!